• Bryan Fittin

Leading Your Facebook Group with Nik Goodner of CRTVChurch

Updated: Sep 21, 2020


[00:01:06] Nik from CRTV Church

[00:02:17] What are you obsessed with this week?

[00:09:35] Nik talks about the beginnings of CRTV Church

[00:19:54] Taking a stand against racial injustice

[00:24:25] Encouraging creatives during COVID 

[00:33:52] Cultivating a large online community

[00:43:02] What’s next for CRTV Church?

[00:46:37] Encouragement to other creatives

[00:49:45] Rapid Fire


Bryan Fittin

Loren Lewis

Nik Goodner

CRTV Church Website

CRTV Church Instagram

CRTV Church Facebook


“Creative church is this platform that’s design to bring creatives together and empower them to be who they are meant to be.” (9:50)

“We create content, podcasts, events, and opportunities for creatives to connect and develop that side of them, so that they can be more secure in who they are and who God has called them to be and who they’re meant to be.” (10:08)

“At some point, you have to realize that conversations are so big that you either have to weigh in, or your silence is going to look like a betrayal.” (21:17)

“You know, sometimes the best words you can hear are ‘you got this,’ honestly, and that’s just the truth.  Whenever things are happening with COVID, we made some cheesy posts.  You know, like stuff that you probably already know, but man, you needed that reminder today.” (24:25)

“As a group admin, as a community leader, wherever you fall on the social media management scale, you are going to want to be listening to the problems that your audience is facing and coming up with solutions for them.  That’s the most important thing you can ever do, because it becomes really easy to encourage people when you know what they’re going through.” (26:09)

“The longer you listen to people, the more perceptive you become as a creative.” (29:53)

“They post something that they may be excited about, or they may have questions about, and other people weigh in, and this is how conversation starts, and this is how community happens naturally.” (35:28)

Leading Your Facebook Group with Nik Goodner of CRTVChurch

In a world where social distancing and quarantining have become the new normal, virtual relationships and online communities have gone from an ancillary opportunity for friendship to a vital part of a normal social life. For creatives, these trying times can seem like an even more considerable burden on a group of people that typically thrive with the support of a community. Nik Goodner joined Bryan and Loren to talk about how his online community CRTV Church is here to help.

What is CRTV Church?

CRTV Church is an online platform devoted to bringing creatives together and empowering them to be who they are meant to be. Nik started CRTV Church after the church he was working for shut down. He realized that his community only existed in the context of his church. After realizing this was a common problem for creatives employed by churches, he decided to create CRTV Church as a permanent, constant community for church creatives. Simply put, it's a church for church creatives.

Taking a stand against racial injustice

Amid the Black Live Matter movement marching back into the spotlight over the summer, Nik believed it was essential to speak up and lead his community in joining the movement. Nik said, "At some point, you have to realize that conversations are so big that you either have to weigh in, or your silence is going to look like a betrayal."

Encouraging creatives during COVID

The COVID pandemic has created difficult circumstances for people working in almost all fields, and creatives are not excluded from this. Right now, people need reminders of simple truths, things they already know. You got this. You matter. The world is lucky to have you. These are simple things creatives can tell themselves, but they are reminders they need to hear.  

Cultivating a large online community

Starting and maintaining a sizable online community comes with its own unique set of struggles, as it contains a broad spectrum of people who are willing to speak their mind. Maintaining the health of a group like this can be very difficult, but Nik has a straightforward answer. Listening to the group's problems goes a long way in allowing you to care for its needs. When you listen to the group and stay in-tune with its issues, you can give it the encouragement it needs. Nik insists that respecting and trusting others is vital to the group's health. Nik refuses to keep people around for the sake of adding to the group's numbers. If their attitude is terrible or they are detrimental to the team, he takes them aside to talk about it. If they are not willing to change, they will have to leave the group.

What's next for CRTV Church?

CRTV Church will be hosting a 24-hour virtual conference on October 23. They will be live streaming for 24 hours with guests from all over the globe to talk as a community and grow together. Tickets include the ability to re-stream sessions that might be missed throughout the 24-hour conference. More information about the conference will be coming soon.


You know, sometimes the best words you can hear are you got this, like, honestly, and that's just the truth. Whenever things are happening with COVID. Like we, based on cheesy posts, you know, like stuff that you probably already know, but man, you needed that reminder today. You needed somebody saying that outside of you, you telling yourself I got this, you need other people to.

Hey, what's up, everybody. Welcome back to the do marketing differently podcast presented by go rogue X. This is the podcast dedicated to helping you. If you're a marketer or a small business owner, just to help you do marketing differently, because well, we want to serve first and give value to help you guys stand out from the crowd.

So we always bring on awesome guests. We try to provide tips and tricks every single week. That will help you do that and stand out from the crowd. Uh, Oh, I have my awesome cohost, ms. Lauren Lewis with me today.

Hey, Hey, how's it going? It's going good. Good. Good. And we have an amazing guest as well. Mr. Nick Gardner.

How's it going, Nick?

I don't want everyone to get their hopes up just yet, but I am a guest. Amazing is to be determined.

I love it. Well, we're already starting off with a bang. This is fantastic. I'm excited to get into this. If you guys don't know, Nick, Nick is a. The founder of creative church CRTV church.

If you're looking out there, we had a fun discussion before we started recording on this, uh, creative church. It's, it's an awesome, I've always appreciated everything that Nick's been doing. He has an amazing Facebook group. Um, I can say that it is one of my favorite Facebook groups, uh, because he has just done an amazing job with the community there.

Uh, but really serving church leaders, connecting people, um, and making sure that, that he helps get them and their passion out there. And he's done a great job of that. And so we're very, very active. Excited to have him on, and we're going to talk about Facebook groups, but before we get into that, before we get into that, we'd like to have some fun.

What is that? Lauren,

each week we like to start our podcast out with what are you obsessed with this week? So starting with our amazing guest, Nick, what are you obsessed with this week?

That's a good question. Um, and you know, I keep going back to this well, um, and I don't know why, but, uh, have you guys seen the Christopher Nolan, Batman movies?

Oh, yeah. By far.

Yes, absolutely. I don't know what I'm, what kicked this off, but I just, I started watching the first one, then I'll watch the second one. Then I'll watch a third one or rewatch the second one. And, uh, I'm just, I'm really obsessed with the fact that those exist first off and second that they just didn't never made any more of those.

And now I'm just really bummed. Cause those are great movies actually. DC actually had something there with that and they really let it go. It really let it go.

Yeah. That could have been a big contender for the Marvel universe, the cinematic universe. I agree with you, Nick. Number two is my favorites, uh, by far, I mean, Heath Ledger's performance as a joker was just insane.

And honestly, um, Tom Hardy is the a as Bain. That was, I mean just, Oh, so good.

So funny story

movies are well crafted.

So well-crafted, I actually saw the dark night in an IMAX theater for the first time, right after I got my wisdom teeth out. So I was still on pain meds. Oh, that movie was terrifying


Oh my goodness. It was so scary just because it was like already in the IMAX theater. So, I mean, it was like so big and I was like, and it was. The first time I had seen it and I was just like, I think I was just robbed from the payments. Yeah. It was quite the experience.

horrifying. No, it's Batman, Lauren. It's just that I

just calmed down just fat. So, I mean, this is, we can't, we can't get down too far into this path, but, uh, what did you think of the joker or joker, uh, walking Phoenix's performance on that? Cause it had that same kind of feel a little bit.

I liked the movie.

Um, it was good. Uh, You know, it's someone I'd revisit. Let me just put it that way. I just wouldn't revisit it that often.

Yeah. Yeah

. It makes sense

. It does. Uh, to Lauren it doesn't make any sense to me cause I, I love, I went back. I think I saw it three times at theaters and I just watched it recently. I think I put it on HBO max and I just watched it.

I love that movie so much, but I'm the same way with the dark nights.

You're the only one has the HBO max subscription. That's keeping that alive.

It's true. It's a lot for the SSME street. Uh, I mean, well,

Oh, they'd stop changing the app. You might actually be able to keep up.

Oh, good grief. Yeah. That's a whole nother podcast and a whole nother topic.

Anyway. Hey, what's your obsession, Lauren, what are you upset?

So we like to talk a lot about TV shows and I started a new one. Why is that?

I'm excited.

I'm like. I don't know what that is.

Oh, you're going to love it. Did you like a next generation?

So I started, I'm not a huge fan of the main character and then she kind of annoyed me.

And so I stopped, but I realized that was a mistake. I need to keep going. Um, And so, but starting the card, it was such a pleasant surprise, and it just it's so well done. It's really beautiful. And I really enjoy it and I love Saifai. So I don't know why I'm just now hopping on the strain, but

did you watch Voyager or any I'm sorry, I just keep it.

Oh, no. Yeah, no,

I know. I haven't actually watched wager

you've never watched it, so you might not get some of the tie-ins, but it's a very good, well done star Trek show.

Yeah, there's a parent. Like I watched like old. Star Trek with like my mom. So like I have like this appreciation for like star Trek, Meredith.

My husband is watching with me and he's like watching no star Trek. So he was like, what? And, um, yeah, it was pretty funny. Some of the questions he was asking, I was like, this is kind of embarrassing for you. So

I'm embarrassed for you in this moment. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, uh, so my obsession this week is the, um, Uh, ATM mini.

We joked about it literally. And then in the church production world, which we're not, we're using it for and church production, but a Nick can relate with this, but all of the posts inside of this Facebook group in the creative Facebook group, it is literally, it is like, Oh, I'm waiting for my eight, 10 minute to come.

It sounds so excited about black magic. Yeah. Is releases phenomenal piece of hardware, uh, that helps with, I mean, any type of video switching and scaling and keying and all the things that yeah. I enjoy nerding out over that. Lauren does not, and that's okay. You know, cause I have people like Nick on our show that I can be like, I literally got the email right before we started recording that it shipped finally they've been on back order forever.

So BNH came through. Oh, so excited.

What's funny is I'm probably following with boring on this one. I'm not a hardware guy. Um, but I'm really happy for you. I mean, I'm excited for what's going on. I don't know what the ATM mini does.

Oh man. I am telling you something, man. If any of the, if any of the people from the group, hear you say this, you may, I mean, it's going to be,

I know I'm a fraud. I know I'm a fraud when it comes to that. That's why I have great friends who really love that stuff who tell me, they try to keep me informed. Like, you know, like, you know how the president is informed by people who, you know, because he doesn't know anything about certain topics. That's me. They're informing me about certain things.

I'm like, Oh yeah, that sounds very exciting for them. So what does that do again?

Hey, you know what? You owned it, Nick, and I appreciate you for that, man. Thank you. So I won't be tagging you though when I'm like, Hey Nick, so awesome. And you're like, so excited.

I will send you back, you know, congratulations.

I was going to say like anything within like graphic designs aspects and all that kinda stuff. I like making things look pretty, but I just don't care how they. Work like

well, we were talking before, so if you guys are watching on video, cause we record this as well as for video podcasting purposes. Uh, and so if you guys see in Nick's background, he has, um, he has a hex codes for black and white, which is super creative or Whitney.

I love that. Pretty cool. And so, uh, yes, there you go. Ah, see mean, so it's so fun because when we started talking about kind of brand and brand colors for us, I mean, I'm a big black and white guy. If I could just wear black all day, it just makes things so much simpler. I don't have to think about what I'm wearing.

And so I, we started following more and more of what you were doing naked. I was like, he's got the black and white brand and I love it. I love everything about it. So anyway, I'm very excited to kind of get into this. And, uh, and talk through, because again, we've talked about the Facebook group and if you're, if you're out there and you're a marketer who is really passionate about something and, and especially changing the world, empowering people, uh, this episode is going to be for you because Nick has a wealth of information and wisdom to, uh, to share.

And, uh, we're going to make sure by the end of this. He is, he believes in himself that he was an amazing guest. So make sure you guys send that feedback because we've been wanting to talk with Nick for a long time. And so, uh, but Nick I've completely butchered your bio. So please tell us what it is exactly that you do.

And, uh, so just for people, thank you

. You've done a great job. You really have. Um, yeah. So for people who don't know me, don't know who I am, um, creative church or CRTV church. Uh, it's like my passion, my number one daily grind. Uh, it's what I do full time. Um, people are always surprised by that, but I do do it full time.

Um, and, uh, Korean churches, this platform that's designed to bring creatives together and empower them to be who they are. It's a B. So we do practical skill development things and as well as spiritual things, because we're a church and we have a spiritual side as well as a practical side. So it kind of interlaced both of those.

And we create content, podcasts, events, and opportunities for creatives to connect and, um, It developed that side of them so that, you know, they, they can be more secure in who they are and who God's called them to be and who East Smith who's, who they're meant to be. Um, just before I started creative church though, I went through a hard breakup with a church.

Um, I was working for, uh, I was, I was on staff for a little under eight months and, um, the leadership decided we were going to close up shop. Um, I will. Talk about the events that transpired to make that happen. Uh, so a little bitter, but um, growing up, working for churches, you know, my parents being there were church planters and my father was a pastor.

My grandfather was pastor. My great grandfather was a pastor. Like I come from a long line of pastors, um, having a church close that I was on staff. That was very hard. It was a very hard season forming. And uh, in that moment, uh, and. Helping me really realize that, you know, this is the first time in my entire life that I was at a church.

I was, I was at a church that closed down, you know, it's, it's gone. And I am out here by myself. Uh, I'm out here kind of alone, and I don't have a church to work for. Um, I realized that my community only existed in the context of my church. And to me, that was a huge problem. Um, and I thought to myself, you know, a lot of other people are dealing with that where their community is only in the context if they're working for a church.

So in the context of their church, so what could we do to solve that problem? Now, I know there's some events that were going on at the time. You know, you had seeds was a big one. Um, uh, the church down at fellowship church at C3, um, and those conferences that they help bring creatives together, but then they only happen once a year.

So my solution became creative church, which was a permanent constant community for church creatives. That acted a lot, a lot like a church and a that's literally what, you know, we behind the scenes that are creative church, we always say we're a church for church creatives. Um, and that's kind of helped give us context as for what we do and what the content that we create, or the events that we create.

Um, and then we kind of run everything else behind the scenes, like a media company would, and that's how we generate income and, and feed the, keep the church going. So that's kinda my backstory, that's where I'm at. Um, other than that, I live in Orlando and, um, I'm married and I have a dog. My dog is a miniature schnauzer and my wife's name is Lydia.

So that's kind of me and me in a very tight nutshell.

Yeah, I love that. And that actually, again, that brings a lot more clarity too, because we knew somewhat of what you, what you did. But even with that, I mean that it, well, I will say this and naturally drew us as church creatives. Right? So for those that don't know, but Lauren and I met at church, uh, my wife is best friends with her and so we kind of started this like just.

Basically helping the creative team just develop these processes and stuff. And then we found the Facebook group and what, all of what you guys were doing. And so it just naturally pulled into that direction. And so you're accomplishing your mission, uh, with the, with creative journey has been phenomenal for us.

And so, um, really it's one of those things too. I mean, How have you from the beginning, uh, really been able to, to build that. So, I mean, you kinda mentioned it about like, Hey, this is what I want to do, but what were, what were kind of some of the practical steps that you actually put in place for your organization, but then also just, you know, even around the, uh, the Facebook group itself,


So, um, definitely made a lot of mistakes doing this, you know, banana for five years. Um, I don't know that I had a formula start now. Uh, and I think that showed, um, uh, for any kind of growth. Um, because when we started, I literally just went and followed a whole bunch of church creatives that I knew on Instagram.

And then a whole bunch of people caught wind of it. And we just had this like explosive growth, like just boom. Like we had 10,000 people within six months. Wow. For a brand new Instagram account. That is cute. Um, and so, you know, we, we began to kind of see. You know, my business might've made because before I ran creative church, uh, helping, um, nonprofits and government organizations kind of stabilize themselves financially and help them with that strategy.

So the business side of me is going well, can we capitalize on this at all? Um, and, uh, off of this growth. And so we began to create things that actually meant something to the creatives that we're creating for. And that's kind of whenever we started implementing things that actually helped sustain our growth and continue to grow.

Um, a lot of those things were like creating content, being there for them, and then starting to operate kind of like that church where we're creating events or creating meetups to connect these creatives. Um, but yeah, it, it. I don't. Yeah. So the sad, does that answer your question?

Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't think I knew about the kind of that, that explosive growth growth up front, because that's pretty cool. Um, and especially with, I, I think naturally, I mean, you're a very talented designer and I think a lot of that played into where it's like, you can't be shaking the sat around now. It is true Nick.

So it is one of the things that it's like a, I think on the back end of that, of being able to, to see an account that does resonate with. You know, you can't just say, Hey, we're creative or, Hey, we're a video company and then not be able to shoot video. Well, like you have to do whatever it is, the community you're building.

You have to have some type of authority, but you know, obviously understand the struggles and what it's like to go through that process. So, um, absolutely.

Yeah, I've absolutely loved, um, the group, just because I think finding that. Um, church creatives on a whole, um, just, um, tend to be really overwhelmed.

They wear a lot of hats. Um, they can also yeah. Be sadly underappreciated for what they do. Um, and so when we were serving on the creative team, um, this was the first Facebook group that I've ever wanted to be. A part of that actually was helpful. There's so many of them that are supposed to be, but they're not.

And this one was so supportive and I love all the resources that come through as well as, um, I love the people that. Share their graphics. I think it just, it sparks ideas for me. And we've talked about this or did you see that? Like, it was so good and somehow, sometimes we wish we could be more edgy, like other churches and have more schools.

We're all about. Yeah,

we do push that envelope a little bit. And for the most part, we have a pretty forgiving congregation, but there are a few things that we pulled out. They're like, what, what was that again? You have the goats and also snakes running around somewhere like, wow. Yeah,

anyways, um, through all of that, one of the, as we play that bumper for church every once.

Oh yeah. Um, how have you stayed true to yourself as an admin, Rennie and group? Even when that's, when that's challenging, especially if you have a lot of people, you're going to see a large variety of church creatives that are coming from all different backgrounds.

Yeah. So, you know, um, do you guys subscribe to the Enneagram at all?

Is this going to mean anything to you? You understand kind of the context of the Instagram. So I fall on the Enneagram eight side of the Enneagram. Um, so remaining true to myself. This is not a very hard thing for me to do. Um

, it's actually explains a lot. I'm not going to lie. I'm like, okay. Alright. Well we understand.

Yeah. Be very honest with myself. Like what I can do, what I can not do and, you know, portraying that to other people. Um, it's not, it's not very hard for me. Um, I think the biggest threat to my existence, it would crumble my world. If someone meets meets me and they go, man, you're not how you act on social media.

Like, I think that would be like the thing that goes, Oh my God, what have I done to fail these people? Because. I don't ever want to get at that point. So like, you know, kind of, part of it might be a little difficult to read under, you know, answer this because I don't know what I would do with that. Being authentic to myself or being true to myself.

I don't think I'd have a group if I wasn't that way. Um, I don't think I'd be running it that's for sure. Uh, if I was that way, if I had to put on a mask, it just wouldn't make me. You know who I am and the person that I am.

Yeah. Well, we, and we talked about that too, when we were just kind of prepping for your episode and just like, Hey, what do we want to talk about?

But that was, that was one of those things that really stood out to us with U of a, especially during kind of the, the racial divide and the racial tension that that's been going on, the, in the social justice, uh, you really took a stand and we appreciated that. I saw that and I was like, wow. There's not a lot of admins that are doing that.

They just want to, you know, not keep the peace. I mean, you did it in a very professional way, but it was just one of those. It's like, Hey, I want to be a part of this even more just because I know now what you stand for and what you will tolerate, what you won't. And, but it wasn't tolerate. I mean, there was a lot of, even those comments and questions where people were genuinely just don't know, and that there's a lot of grace and that, that is something that you don't see.

Um, It is, especially in, on the, in the social media world, but, uh, you've done a great job of kind of keeping true to yourself. And do you have any advice maybe for some admins who are kind of going through, maybe they're not one to kind of be a challenger to kind of put things out there and they are a little more reserved, but what's a, what advice would you give to other admins of groups like this?

Yeah, just, you know, don't do anything that's outside your comfort zone so far that, you know, you're ruin your own happiness. That's a big thing. Um, I know there's some people who are admins who have come to me and they've told me, no, we didn't say anything because it's just not our nature to say anything.

And I have a, I have a little grace for it. Um, I can understand, I know that, you know, again, an issue like this with the, with the race thing, um, and what's going on with the black lives matter movement, an issue like this that you're not speaking on, raises some other red flags. So it's kind of hard for me to have a lot of grace for it, but I can have some fun.

I understand, you know, maybe they, yeah, you just really would really destroy them to speak out against this. Um, so I kind of, I can get with that, but at the same time, whenever something like this is important, that's happening, not only in your culture, but in your group's culture. Cause creatives are on the front line of interpreting this movement, I believe to their pastors and their church congregations.

And, um, Helping them define what kind of stand they need to take or informing them or educating them. Um, but I'm going to do my job and that's what the group is, is essentially about. So like, if you don't do anything, that's on Rob you of her happiness, but yet at some point you have to realize that conversations are so big that you either have to weigh in or your silence is going to look like a betrayal.

Yeah. And I think a lot of, a lot of people saw that during this time, a lot of group admins who remained silent, a lot of my friends came to me and they were like, that looks like that. That looks like a betrayal. That's what that looks like. They didn't say anything. They didn't post anything. They didn't make it, the messaging towards it.

And I'm not tooting my own horn and saying, Ooh, I did such a great job, but, uh, But I just want to warn admins out there that whenever things like that happen and you don't win, you're reserved and you're like, you shut down and you know, you don't even say, you know, I stand with, with my, with, with, with my people.

Like you just completely nothing. That's going to look like up the trail to some people. So you want to make sure that you're doing things that, you know, You can, you can put out that, you know, you remain satisfied with your life, but yet at the same time, you don't want to miss those big cultural conversations like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and that, I think even again, going back to that, I had mentioned the grace thing. It was really for people who were asking the questions, like, I don't know how I'm like, this is kind of the first time I've even having some self realization and I don't know what questions to ask her.

I'm trying, you know, and there wasn't a. Uh, an outpour of people, like how dare you, you should absolutely know you should, you know, and you, you did it a great way of educating the people to where, even my stuff I learned through that. And I'm like, wow, I didn't, I had never thought about it that way. And that helped me kind of have even more empathy in that situation.

And only one make me learn more in that, in that moment too. So

yeah, I mean, I think also, I mean kind of, obviously not. Taking that from the racial aspect, but like taking it down to just like silence on, on issues in general. Um, I think we see a lot when we're working with clients in social media and they'll get a bad review and they don't want to address it.

Cause they're like, well, it would look bad. And I'm like, it looks way worse when you don't say anything or

you disciple. All the reviews or comments or anything like that, like, Oh,

so yeah, I think always finding, um, finding your voice and being able to communicate well is always really important. So we really appreciate what you've been doing and in that group, for sure.

Um, so thinking about, um, creatives and gentlemen, we talked a little bit that they can be, um, well, creatives are just an interesting greed as well. Um, but, um, I kind of work as a project manager over a lot of creatives that was, so

we have a book that you've, what is it hurting, hurting tigers. She's like how to, how to manage creatives.

I was like, that's a great book for you.

Yes, it is. Um, but anyways, um, they can also be a, just, it's an interesting group that I think during, especially like COBIT times, um, we see a lot of creatives that are, I mean, they're going above and beyond right now to find creative ways. Um, so how have you found, um, A way to easily encourage creatives without, I don't know, being cheesy.

And like, you got this without, you know, actually being authentic about it.

You know, sometimes the best words you can hear are you got this, like, honestly, and that's just truth. Uh, whenever things are having to have COVID. Like we, based on cheesy posts, you know, like stuff that you probably already know, but man, you needed that reminder today.

You needed somebody saying that outside of, you know, you telling yourself I got this, you need other people to tell you that you have this. Um, yeah, just, you know, in this, again, part of our mission with creative church, you know, whenever we're developing people spiritually, you have to remember that to be developed spiritually.

You have to be encouraged. Right. So we want to encourage people. So encouragement is always a big part of what we do. Um, because I'm an Enneagram eight. I get honest with people real quick. And, um, if I don't encourage people, they'll just feel like they're being punched all the time with truth bombs. And I don't want to just punch them all the time with truth bumps.

I want to remind them that the situations that they're in, they can handle and they can take, and they can, they, they do have this, um, especially with, you know, what. What happened with COVID in the changes that had to be made in a lot of churches very quickly. Um, they needed that reminder that whenever they hop on social media, they got into their group, that we were there to be there for them.

Like we changed everything that we are doing. Uh, we erased months of content that we had planned. Only to gear it towards helping them do what they're dealing with right now. And that comes down to a lot of empathy and a lot of listening. Um, you know, we, we have two ears, one mouth that's that means we have to listen to twice as much as we talk.

And, um, as a group admin, as a community leader, wherever you fall on the social media management scale, um, You are going to want to be listening to the problems that your audience is facing and coming up with solutions for them, that's the most important thing you can ever do? Um, because it becomes, it becomes really easy to encourage people when you know what they're going through.

Um, and it becomes really easy to drop a word that, you know, cheesy, but shouldn't affect their lives in a big way, just because you had the. Audacity to just shut your mouth and listen for a little while and see what they were actually going through. It's not something you're going to find in a customer survey either.

You've got to actually actively people watch your community to actually understand what it is they're actually dealing with.

Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. That's a, I think even in general, you've done it in a way of encouraging people of just grabbing their agenda. We always talk about stopping the scroll.

Right. Um, and you've done it in a way that it's a graphic, but yet it's done well to where it grabs your attention. And you're like, Oh yeah. Like, Hey, you know, you are loved. You, you do matter. And that's, that's such a, even as, as, I mean, I'm, we were pretty open about mental health, you know, around here and just taking care of yourself.

And so there's that, that one statement of you matter to me that resonates to me probably way more than even with my wife. Like, she, she sees that and she's like, yeah, I do matter. But like with me, it's a deeper thing. And so you've done yeah. That encouragement in a lot of ways that that really help you like to scrolling through like, Oh, Hey, appreciate that today now, you know, I needed that.

That's awesome. Well, and even, even talking about that, I mean, we, you know, especially during the, you know, the pandemic and stuff that, that, uh, right at the beginning, it was discouraging for a lot of people because people were scared. They didn't know what was going to happen, not just about the virus, but, you know, the whole world is changing.

Right. And so, um, you did a thing kind of right out of the gate, uh, which was couch Fest. Right. And talk to us about that, because that was really when, uh, from a marketing standpoint, I know you did not intend this, but from a marketing standpoint, seeing you go every single day, or I'm trying to think of how many times a week that you did it, but it was like, it was always showing up like, Hey, we're going to have this guest, I have this guest we're having.

I was like, Oh, I need to pay attention to what's going on because. You were actually doing a lot, you know what I mean? And so that did help kind of bring the awareness of the group up because you're doing something different, which we like around here. But talk to us about that. What, what was your kind of mindset going into that?

So couch has happened in 24 hours, literally from inception to design to roll out. It happened at 24 hours.

That's amazing.

We were without, we had the guests lined up because I did tell everyone that we're going to do some live talks to kind of help people navigate this stuff. But